| Interviewed by Scott G (The G-Man)G-Man: When | | | | of today has to learn as he goes, and to help avoid |
| people think of Matt Forger, they usually think of | | | | costly mistakes and wasting time and money, there |
| your work with Michael Jackson, Quincy Jones, Bruce | | | | are excellent programs offered by these |
| Springsteen, Paul McCartney, Glen Ballard, and Bruce | | | | organizations to help the artist move forward and |
| Swedien, yet when you hand out a CD with | | | | understand the complex nature of the business. |
| examples of your producing, engineering or mixing, it | | | | There is also the advantage of being able to build a |
| almost always has new and emerging artists, people | | | | team of support specialists to help with the areas |
| like Mutant Radio, Laughing With Lulu, The Dharma | | | | that you don't desire to undertake yourself. |
| Bomb, or Fjaere. What's your thinking behind the | | | | Remember, a collaborative effort can be the most |
| choice of avoiding the big names?Forger: While my | | | | effective way of achieving a goal, especially when |
| association with those big names was a wonderful | | | | the scope of the undertaking is overwhelming.G-Man: |
| experience, it's also in the past.G-Man: But you work | | | | What can you tell us about your current studio |
| with artists at every level, including "the | | | | gear?Forger: Simple, straightforward, always an eye |
| biggies."Forger: Oh sure, for example, I still maintain a | | | | to quality. It's not the newest whiz-bang device that |
| professional relationship with Michael Jackson and | | | | sets a studio apart. It's the workhorse, tried and true |
| contributed to the recent release of "Michael Jackson | | | | technology that proves to be the greatest value. |
| - The Ultimate Collection," a boxed set, and I worked | | | | Right now I'm using Pro Tools because it's the |
| on many of the previously unreleased recordings that | | | | standard for audio production in the industry. Other |
| are included in it, as well as overseeing various | | | | systems work well too, but some type of |
| aspects of the project. This is, of course, very | | | | compatibility is always desirable. I compliment my |
| enjoyable to be part of because I got to revisit | | | | computer system with a selection of outboard gear |
| those eras when I worked very closely with Michael | | | | that works for my application. I specialize in mixing |
| as he created the great albums that established him | | | | so I have some good reverbs and effects from |
| as the "King of Pop." For me, that was a learning | | | | Lexicon, Yamaha and Roland. And a mastering chain |
| experience that had no equal. To be part of | | | | that creates a good final quality product, Neve |
| history-making projects like "Thriller" and to work | | | | compressors, DB technologies converters and TC |
| with Quincy Jones taught me what it takes to make | | | | mastering software in a M-5000 processor. For |
| the best recordings possible. Not just in a commercial | | | | speakers, I use Tanoys and Custom Altec Monitors. |
| sense, but as artistic statements, and what it takes | | | | They work for me. Very often, clients will say they |
| for a song to engage the listener, the power of a | | | | don't get an understanding of the sound in the studio. |
| collaborative team effort, and what it means to | | | | But when they take the mixes out into the real |
| "arrive at the studio and leave your ego at the door." | | | | world, they love the sound. That's where it really |
| These and the many other lessons learned are what | | | | counts. If it sounds great in the studio but nowhere |
| I bring to the table when I work with new and | | | | else, you're on the wrong path.G-Man: From your |
| emerging artists.G-Man: So you're combining the best | | | | studio set-up, I can see that you've embraced the |
| aspects of past and present. What are some of the | | | | digital world. Is there anything you miss about the |
| contrasts?Forger: The old model of the record | | | | analog days?Forger: There are a lot of things that |
| business allowed for the development of talent, | | | | you get used to when recording on analog tape. The |
| coaching it along the way, working with songwriters, | | | | time it takes to rewind, the fat sound, the accidents |
| arrangers, producers and engineers and learning the | | | | that occur that turn out to be inspiring, having a |
| craft of record making. That system doesn't exist in | | | | track sheet to doodle on. It's great if you can afford |
| today's business model. Today, with few exceptions, | | | | to incorporate an analog stage at some point of the |
| major labels look for the most promising bands and | | | | recording process. Some styles of music benefit |
| artists, sign them to a deal, and if they don't sell the | | | | more than others, but it still adds a charming sonic |
| numbers that the companies require, dump the act. | | | | personality when you can. It has come to the point |
| Before an act has the chance to develop a following | | | | where recording analog is a luxury. For the cost of a |
| and learn the ropes, it can be all over. That's what it's | | | | reel of two inch tape, you can buy a hard drive large |
| about now, the bottom line. Corporate business has | | | | enough to hold several CDs of recordings. Whatever |
| no heart and no sense of artistry. I want to look to | | | | the choice, use the recording medium to its maximum |
| the future, and it's out there. The future of the | | | | potential.G-Man: What are your thoughts about tape |
| music business is in the undiscovered talent that flies | | | | manufacturing problems?Forger: It's a sad state of |
| below the radar. That's who I want to work with. | | | | affairs that analog tape manufacturing has ceased. |
| That's the hope of the music industry: the unique, | | | | To deprive those who love the sound characteristics |
| innovative artists who are creating something new | | | | that it imparts on recordings is unfortunate. It forces |
| and exiting, not regurgitating an old tired formula, or | | | | artists, engineers and producers to make choices not |
| manufacturing synthetic crap with no emotion or | | | | based on creative style, but instead on the corporate |
| heart. I want to be part of the future!G-Man: If | | | | influence on the business of creativity. I have heard |
| nothing else is read in this interview, I want to thank | | | | that there will be tape available in the future. It will of |
| you for those comments! In addition to the seven | | | | course become a specialty item and the cost will |
| Michael Jackson albums, you've worked with Van | | | | certainly become much higher that what everyone is |
| Halen, Lena Horne, James Ingram , Giorgio Moroder, | | | | accustomed to paying now. But for those who |
| and many others. Care to comment on the | | | | appreciate it and have the financial means to afford |
| difference between sessions with superstars and | | | | it, it will become a premium option in the recording |
| sessions with stars-in-the-making?Forger: In a word: | | | | world.G-Man: I know you're one of nearly 100 top |
| experience. The seasoned pros have one important | | | | producers affiliated with How does that organization |
| quality that sets them apart: they have developed an | | | | work?Forger: That's a good question because Studio |
| instinctual feel for music. It's that thing that | | | | Expresso is different things to different people, |
| accomplished musicians have. It's an intuitive thing. | | | | depending on your needs. It's a clearing house for |
| You learn to trust your gut through trial and error. | | | | engineers and producers, a portal so to speak, for |
| There is no substitute for it. Some people have it | | | | the outside world as well as the industry. If you |
| more than others. It's a sensitivity, an ability to see | | | | would like to research an engineer or producer for an |
| inside the music and read the different levels of | | | | upcoming project, the background and contact |
| what's occurring. Then, to have the ability to | | | | information is there for many of the industry's top |
| recognize and manipulate the elements in such a way | | | | people. If you need to co-ordinate a studio project, |
| as to make a more effective communication of the | | | | then Studio Expresso can help you find a top notch |
| songs' intent. For newer artists, it's often a matter of | | | | facility, or whatever personnel you may require. If |
| helping them identify and tune into those subtle | | | | you're traveling to LA to make use of the creative |
| qualities. And, to focus on what is important and | | | | assets the area has to offer, then arrangements and |
| what is just background noise that's creating | | | | support for your project and stay are also available. |
| confusion.G-Man: Let's talk about the diversity of your | | | | Studio Expresso has also been exploring ways to |
| musical interests for a moment. You recorded a | | | | support the independent music movement by helping |
| modern-retro band called The Teddy Boys, then you | | | | new and developing talent ways to network and |
| made some dance remixes of a couple of my songs, | | | | establish contacts within the industry. Claris, who |
| and you've done live recording for singer-songwriter | | | | heads up the organization, also manages producers, |
| Caroline Aiken. It seems like you enjoy a wide | | | | engineers and other talented people on the |
| variety of styles and genres. Do you favor certain | | | | production side of the business and offers her |
| kinds of music, or are there any forms of music you | | | | expertise and experience in the business to help build |
| don't like?Forger: I grew up with the pop radio | | | | their careersG-Man: If an artist is interested in |
| formats starting in the '60s, where you could hear | | | | working with you, what should they do? Send you |
| the entire assortment of what was out there. Jimi | | | | some material first? Contact you via Contact you |
| Hendrix, Frank Sinatra, Roger Miller, The Beach Boys | | | | directly?Forger: While I don't mind talking with a |
| and The Beatles would all be on the same station. | | | | potential client, it's good to establish a dialog with SE |
| When you heard everything from Jan and Dean to | | | | first. If there is any question about how to approach |
| James Brown in the course of a few minutes, it gave | | | | a producer, then these types of questions can be |
| an overview of what the public in general was | | | | cleared up ahead of time. Many times I've taken calls |
| listening to. When radio in the '70s became | | | | for someone in need of a "producer," only to find out |
| album-oriented, it started to narrow the field of what | | | | in the course of a conversation that they are looking |
| would be heard on a given station. In the course of | | | | for someone who will co-write songs, act as a |
| my growing up, I always was exploring what was | | | | musician, program beats and synths, as well as |
| new and different, what type of instrumentation was | | | | engineer, mix and produce. Some artists feel that a |
| new and exiting. As trends continued, the influence of | | | | producer should shop the material and secure a deal |
| ethnic and world beat came to be an interesting | | | | for them. In this business, everyone operates |
| movement. There are too many styles of music to | | | | differently. I work to facilitate the successful |
| name and say that they have all influenced me, but | | | | completion of a recording project, regardless of its |
| quality has always been a factor. I've worked on | | | | complexity. It's always good going in to know the |
| sessions from Classical to Country, New Wave to | | | | specific qualification you're looking for and that you're |
| New Age, Pop to Punk, music from all parts of the | | | | talking to a person who has the right set of |
| globe, and it's still exciting and a challenge to work on | | | | skills.G-Man: Do you have any thoughts on 5.1?Forger: |
| something new. If there's a form of music I don't | | | | Yes, It's a beautiful thing. While Michael Jackson's |
| care for, it's the manufactured mediocre crap that | | | | "Captain EO" was one of the first digital 5.1 theatrical |
| gets sold as having something to say when it's just | | | | releases, and working on that project was |
| pretentious drivel.G-Man: Again, thanks for making | | | | groundbreaking, my area of interest is currently the |
| those statements. That's great. When you record | | | | song, and its emotional content. While 5.1 home |
| live, I know you have a preference for a certain | | | | theater is growing immensely in popularity, most |
| recording technique. Can you tell us about it?Forger: | | | | music today is "consumed" in the traditional stereo |
| When the situation allows, there is a technique that I | | | | format, and to a large extent MP3 is the format of |
| love to use because of its elegant simplicity. It uses a | | | | choice when delivered on computer, iPod, blasters |
| single high quality stereo microphone strategically | | | | and small systems. Almost the opposite of the |
| placed to capture the performance, the event and | | | | esoteric environment that a true 5.1 audio system |
| the environment all at the same time. There is a | | | | would dictate. And while a listening experience in 5.1 |
| sonic signature that this technique creates that is | | | | can be very gratifying, most independent artists just |
| unlike any other. It is the capturing of that moment in | | | | don't go there because getting the music out in an |
| time, and when it occurs, you capture a great | | | | effective manner is the priority.G-Man: Care to |
| performance. When done properly, it transports the | | | | comment on the latest format wars?Forger: My only |
| listener to that place and the feeling of being there. | | | | observation is that it will work itself out in the |
| This technique seems to work best in acoustic and | | | | commercial marketplace. Remember VHS/Beta, Quad |
| ensemble situations where the volume is not terribly | | | | sound, Laserdisks, 8 Tracks vs. Cassettes. When |
| overpowering. It has the ability to capture subtlety | | | | viewed from a historical perspective, everyone's |
| and nuance in the perspective of the dynamics of | | | | hindsight will be 20/20 and the question won't be an |
| the moment. This is of course what direct to stereo | | | | issue.G-Man: What's the weirdest thing you've done in |
| recording is all about. I didn't originate the technique, | | | | the studio? In terms of sonics, I mean.Forger: Before |
| but have come to appreciate its power and purity. | | | | the advent of digital technology, you needed to be |
| When an artist is at home with an audience, record | | | | creative acoustically and electronically. In the song |
| the event and have a document of that energy and | | | | "Billie Jean," when Michael sings the line "Do think |
| honesty of the expression of the music. It can be so | | | | twice" at end of the third verse, he's singing through |
| simple and effective. There are also ways to | | | | a cardboard mailing tube. We often would record |
| incorporate this into a larger recording plan and have | | | | elements in the bathroom (tiled) because it would |
| extra microphones to highlight various sections or | | | | give it a short early reflection quality. The main |
| instruments. I've done this as well and had very | | | | percussion sound on the song "Beat It" was Michael |
| pleasing results.G-Man: How did you get your start in | | | | beating on fiberboard drum cases with 1x3 inch |
| the business? Was there formal training, or did you | | | | pieces of wood in the mirrored room of Westlake |
| just begin recording around the house and hanging | | | | Studio A. This was all normal. Now if you want to talk |
| out at studios?Forger: Well, my start in the business | | | | weird, on one song (not MJ) we ran a tape loop |
| was actually when I began mixing live shows. I had | | | | around the room supported by microphone stands on |
| done other things before that: classical guitar lessons, | | | | a two track machine. It was a loop of burps and was |
| playing with electronic stuff and listening to a ton of | | | | keyed by the kick and snare to give the effect of |
| records and music. But, it was live mixing that gave | | | | drums that were alive and breathing.G-Man: What is |
| me the first money I ever earned in music, and the | | | | "The Matt Forger Show"?Forger: The "Matt Forger |
| sense that I was on to something that I knew I had | | | | Show" is the name credited to the sound design |
| a natural ability for. It was being asked to keep an | | | | elements that I have created. It was started by |
| eye on the mixer for friends who had a band. They | | | | Michael when we would work together and often he |
| were impressed that they sounded so much better | | | | was in a location that didn't permit visual contact. We |
| and that the audience enjoyed the sound. That was | | | | only had our voices as a reference. The detachment |
| my first gig. That led to my learning of all matters | | | | made it feel as if it was a radio program. It became |
| related to sound. I read, I experimented, I built my | | | | the name I choose to use for my style of work that |
| own gear, I asked questions of people I could find | | | | combines spoken word, sound effects and |
| who had more experience than I did. There was a | | | | music.G-Man: How would you describe the magic or |
| guy in my town who was a wiz with electronics, and | | | | the fascination of music?Forger: Music is a form of |
| he had built a recording studio in an old chicken coup. | | | | emotional communication. The combination of |
| It was a funky place to work but the sound that | | | | rhythmic patterns, melodic progressions and lyric |
| came from there was amazing. I used to hang out | | | | content, communicate and express feelings that we |
| there and just watch and try to learn what was | | | | share though common experience. A pop song is a |
| occurring. I would work with my friends and try | | | | three minute fix of an emotional drug. We are |
| techniques, mic placement, and experimented with | | | | connected through our humanity, and most |
| everything we could think of. It was an education by | | | | successful songs speak to this. It is our shared |
| trial and error. It was gratifying when musicians would | | | | human failings and aspirations that connect us. |
| come by our makeshift studio in the drummers' | | | | Whether it's telling a story, expressing a feeling or |
| basement or bass players' bedroom and comment | | | | idea, it's the honesty with which we communicate |
| that they were spending good money to record with | | | | our inner most self, that allows others to share in the |
| experienced people at professional studios and didn't | | | | moment.G-Man: Are there any common qualities |
| have anything that sounded like our recordings. It | | | | you've observed in successful artists?Forger: There is |
| was all instinct. What was it supposed to sound like? | | | | one quality that I have observed in all the successful |
| Like all those great records that I grew up listening | | | | artists I have worked with. That is the ability or |
| to - that was the benchmark. I just followed my | | | | talent to understand music at an intuitive level. Not |
| heart to tell me what the music needed.G-Man: What | | | | just technically or in theory, but at a gut level to feel |
| are some of the reasons you interact with and | | | | what is required to make a piece of music work. This |
| support NARIP (National Association of Record | | | | is evident in the creative process. When asked for an |
| Industry Professionals)?Forger: NARIP is a great | | | | idea, melody line, counter line, harmony part, |
| organization. It's one of those places that you can go | | | | arrangement progression or instrument texture, I |
| and network with others who are looking towards | | | | have noticed that certain very successful individuals |
| the future. There are professionals from all facets of | | | | are never at a loss. And, while not at a loss, always |
| the industry, from the creative side to the business | | | | have ideas that are appropriate for the particular |
| specialists. If you are looking for someone with a | | | | situation and are of the highest quality. They are on |
| specific skill or are looking to offer your talents to | | | | the money instinctively, without reservation and with |
| others, there is always an assortment of people to | | | | complete confidence. They are, in fact, "one with the |
| network with. In the entertainment industry, success | | | | music." This quality I can say is what separates the |
| is based on who you know more than what you | | | | most successful artists with those that aspire for |
| know. When you have both, you have the potential | | | | greatness. While it is true this is something that |
| for great things. As an organization, NARIP holds | | | | comes with experience, it is also that quality that |
| many panel events, seminars, workshops, and just | | | | allows for success to continue. To have your finger |
| networking get-togethers. The quality of people who | | | | on the pulse of what the public feels is one thing, to |
| attend is always top notch.G-Man: You're also a | | | | be able to lead the public with your own sense of |
| participant in organizations like L*A*M*P and Venus | | | | what is a true expression of honest emotion is yet |
| Music.Forger: Yes, these are also great organizations | | | | another talent.CONTACTS: |
| because they play an important roll in backing the | | | | |
| independent artist community in the LA area. I try to | | | | |
| offer my support to organizations that have, as a | | | | |
| goal, the advancement of the independent music | | | | THE INTERVIEWER: |
| community. It's my belief that the music of | | | | Scott G makes commercials at G-Man Music & |
| tomorrow will come from these songwriters and | | | | Radical Radio and releases albums under the name |
| bands. With the major labels no longer developing | | | | "The G-Man" for Delvian Records. His music can be |
| talent, it has created a void of where one can go to | | | | heard on commercials for Verizon Wireless, Goodrich, |
| understand how things work on the inside. The artist | | | | Micron, NASSCO, the Auto Club, and many more. |